The Coordination Conversation

#3 - BIM Game Changers: AutoCAD to Revit — Project Management in the Hot Seat

• Jordan & Skala Engineers • Season 1 • Episode 3

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In Episode 3 of The Coordination Conversation, Francesca Baker (Project Manager) joins Tom Matzen (BIM Manager) to unpack what really changes when teams move from AutoCAD to Revit. We cover time management vs. detail, why a BIM kickoff is non-negotiable, how to balance live models with publish & consume, the debate on fully populated models, and what’s next with AI in BIM.

If you manage MEP projects—or collaborate with architects and structural—this one’s packed with practical takeaways for cleaner drawings, fewer surprises, and on-time deliverables.

You’ll learn:
The biggest PM shifts moving from CAD to Revit (schedules, coordination, and expectations)
How to run BIM kickoffs that prevent last-minute scrambles
When to freeze a live model so CDs stay clean and consistent
Pros/cons of fully populated models and phased population
What JSE’s BIM team is updating (families, tools) to boost model efficiency
Where AI can help (LLMs, automation, routing) and what’s realistic—now vs. next

Chapters
00:00 – Introduction
01:38– Project Management in the BIM Era
05:44 – BIM Kickoff Meetings & Why They Matter
11:10 – Fully-Populated Models
16:53 – Favorite Revit Project Experience & What Went Well
20:15 – Live Models
22:46 – What’s JSE’s Updating & AI in BIM

About Jordan & Skala Engineers (JSE)
We’re a national consulting engineering firm delivering MEP Engineering, Sustainability, and Low Voltage—three consultants under one roof—to streamline coordination and outcomes for our clients.
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Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this video are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the official policies or positions of any video partners or affiliates.
All content provided is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice for any specific project, site, or situation. Project requirements, conditions, and regulations vary, and what is discussed in this video may not apply to your specific circumstances.
Any reliance you place on this information is strictly at your own risk. Viewers should always consult with a qualified professional before making project-related decisions.
Jordan & Skala Engineers assumes no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided.

This content is the intellectual property of Jordan & Skala Engineers and may not be reproduced, redistributed, or used by any third party without the express written permission of JSE.

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Speaker:

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show. My name is Francesca Baker, and I'm a project manager at Jordan and Skala Engineers. And I'm here with Tom Matzen, our BIM manager, and I'm in the hot seat today. Tom is going to be asking me some questions about project management as it relates to the transition from CAD to Revit. How's it going?

Speaker:

It's going all right. Been a busy morning so far.

Speaker:

Oh yeah, definitely. It’s exciting.

Speaker:

Okay. So I kind of want to start off, I guess, with tell me a little bit about what project management is.

Speaker:

Yeah. So I've been project managing now pretty much since the beginning of my time here at Jordan & Skala. Really, in a short summation, you know, we’re the main point of contact for our client. We represent mechanical, electrical, plumbing, sustainability, low voltage for Jordan & Skala. And really we are coordinating the team internally and working with a big project team, to do our part to coordinate with them as best as possible to make sure all of our projects are delivered on time and well coordinated, up to our engineering standards at Jordan & Skala. So, you know, part of that internal coordination is just the actual managing of the backgrounds themselves, the architectural backgrounds and our drafting of our MEP design.

Speaker:

And Jordan & Skala’s been using CAD for years now, and we're transitioning into BIM, and we've been doing that for quite a few years as well. Tell me a little bit about the difference between CAD and Revit softwares.

Speaker:

Yeah. So project management you know when a project is in CAD versus Revit I would say the biggest difference is our internal schedule. AutoCAD is definitely what we've been used to. It's what a lot of our clients have been working in for so long. And so at a certain point it just becomes so quick the drafting effort in AutoCAD, but as the industry shifts and our clients shift, moving more towards a BIM Revit model, you know, we have to make that shift as well. But the biggest difference is just the time management - the time management portion of the two. Because because of the, you know, more detailed that Revit is which makes it so great, right. You know, we can have this better coordination effort of this 3D model. And you can actually see, you know, the outside dimension of our ductwork and plumbing piping and really see how lighting fixtures, you know, sit on the ceiling. It's awesome. But it takes longer to do that level of drafting. So internally, you know, as a project manager, I have to work with the team to make sure that we are time managing our schedule and our modeling capabilities in order to hit similar deadlines that we've had. You know, as the industry shifts and MEP is is shifting with this program, we also need to stay on top of getting our projects delivered on time. Right, right.

Speaker:

So basically the way -- is, there are differences in the way that you communicate with those two softwares in order to achieve that.

Speaker:

Definitely, definitely. And we rely so heavily on our BIM department really I mean, I always say this in any project, Our BIM Coordinator, Leticia, I mean, I don't know what we would do without her. She is a huge part of this whole process. Just to make sure that our models are set up in a way that meets our clients’ standards, but also can be used by us on the design side as efficiently as possible. So we definitely have to have more conversations, because with CAD it's just the same thing every time. You're pretty much just you figure out feet size and then it's always going to be the same. But with Revit there's several different ways to go about it. It also depends on your type of building that you have to. So we're definitely working more collaboratively with our BIM department, which I think is great right.

Speaker:

And I'm assuming that all those nuances that you're seeing, you're getting answers at the beginning of project with BIM kickoff meetings?

Speaker:

Yes, yes. So the BIM kickoff meetings are absolutely integral. But we cannot start a project in Revit without a BIM kickoff meeting with our clients. And I would say they're typically, you know, not too long. It can be even like a 10 to 15 minute meeting. It depends on the client. Some clients have something similar to what we have, a BIM department. So, they would bring on their representative. That would basically it would just be our two BIM departments talking, you know, really the subject matter experts here on how we are going to share models and update our backgrounds and set up our project, how we are going to name our sheets, how our sheet index is going to be set up. We hit all these conversations, in we have a great checklist that we just run through. And then we have the record of that as well. So, you know, if someone else comes in later and needs to do some work on it, they have a reference to look up. So yeah, the BIM kickoff meetings are absolutely necessary at the beginning of the project with Revit. And the design team, I think would totally attest to that. I mean, I see people all the time saying, Have we had our BIM kickoff meeting? When are we getting it set up? Because everyone really wants to clear everything up in the beginning. Right.

Speaker:

So how does the BIM department interplay during a project after it's set up? With model performance and things like that?

Speaker:

Right. So they're definitely going to be key in that sharing and updating of the model. Depending on the client, you know, they may want to have a live model. They may want to, publish and consume. And our BIM department is really great at keeping track of that, so that when we see that there is an update or a change to the background, that we need to reflect they, fairly quickly, know exactly what they're doing when they get into the model, they know how to update it, and then they're very good at communicating with us. You know, there's a whole new series of, dwelling units and the name is changing. This is how I'm thinking of setting it up. And do you all agree? Which is really great because then it's not a surprise to anyone. And I think that's at the end of the day the best thing for us is that we know what is changing. And we have a little bit of preparation and control in how we're updating those changes.

Speaker:

Kind of working alongside the PM then and following and tracking the model changes to help the designers. Okay. In your BIM kickoff meetings, what kind of attendance do you see I mean, with -- is it just our clients or architects, or is it more in depth and contain all disciplines of the project?

Speaker:

So I've seen it several ways. I would say what is becoming more and more popular is to have this kick off with MEP & Structural. I would say, since we are the majority of the, you know, the inner workings of the building and we're involved in all aspects of the building, it makes the most sense to have that kick off with us because we are on more similar timelines. Just as far as design goes with the project and architectural background changes, I wouldn't say affect us similarly, but we we have to provide a similar amount of time to react to those changes, if that makes sense. So I've seen it become more popular to have MEP and structural and architectural on and the BIM kick off. Typically, civil and landscape, are working in CAD no matter what. And then, you know, interior design is a little bit different. A lot of times they're coming on later in the game anyway. So they can usually just kinda hop in and and share their backgrounds with us. So that has become more and more popular. It definitely is always the architect and usually if they have a BIM department, their BIM department joins as well. It's always our BIM department and the project manager at least. Sometimes it's good to have the rest of the design team on there. I wouldn't say it's necessary, especially if it's a client we’ve worked with before, you know, we'll just save everyone the time and and get with them later on with what occurs.

Speaker:

Can you provide any case studies that you've seen with or without the BIM kick off? Yes. So I would say without the BIM kickoff, it's a little bit more of a scramble. Right? We are eventually having some sort of a like last minute conversation, whether that, you know, at this point it probably doesn’t look like a true BIM kickoff meeting because it's really last minute most likely. And usually it's a strain. Well, not only is it a strain on the design team because they probably haven't been able to properly model within the backgrounds yet, but it's a huge strain on our BIM department. And, you know, all of our backgrounds are flowing through them. And so we don't want to cause any roadblocks on getting anything set up that's just going to put us behind the eight ball. So yeah, we do not just want to fly by the seat of our pants into a Revit model, without having a conversation with our client about it.

Speaker:

What are you hearing? About fully populated models.

Speaker:

So fully populated models, I feel like are trending more on the design build side of the industry. I would not say that it is normal yet. But I definitely see the benefit in it. You know, it can really save on coordination efforts because you will, you know, at the end of the day, the goal is to see every single unit, every single ceiling of this building with all of the MEP in it, with structural in it, with ID in it, in every single corner. So, you know, a lot of times we're going by just typical, views and, and making assumptions about how it's constructed. And with that, there's going to probably be some hiccups in the field. The point of the fully-populated model is to really make sure that there are no major issues that are going to repeat themselves a ton of times, which makes a lot of sense. But with that, obviously it takes a lot more time to design.

Speaker:

So yeah, I think you're hitting the nail on the head there. Is that a lot of the fully populated models take more time, and not all of our project schedules allow for that extra time to be taken. But there is definitely the potential of utilizing not only the -- or seeing all the aspects that may exist, but also potentially start pulling data out of the model. And right now, our project schedules don't sound like they're they're hitting that just yet, but we're working towards it.

Speaker:

Right. Exactly. And in when I have seen it, you know, it's that's built into the schedule. So we're maybe populating 50% of the model first, reviewing that and making sure we're not once again repeating issues or anything, trying to catch it in pieces so that by the time 100% of the model is populated, it should be pretty up to par. Right.

Speaker:

Bouncing kind of back to the BIM kickoff meetings, how long are those meetings typically taking you and your team?

Speaker:

I would say they’re typically you know, we can knock it out in probably 15 minutes. If structural is on the call as well, maybe it takes a little bit longer just because we're talking to more disciplines. But they can be pretty quick. We have a great checklist that we just run through. Typically the architect is speaking the same language so they know how to answer those questions fairly quickly I would say.

Speaker:

Overall communication between Revit and CAD projects, it sounds like that we're having more communication with the Revit projects than we probably did with the CAD projects in the past.

Speaker:

Yes, I would say that yes, we are definitely communicating more. We have to, just to make sure that, you know, we are having time to implement our design properly. But what about the model? I thought the consensus was you can kind of get all the data out of the model. Yes and no. I would say I would say the model is great because we can all be in there and we can see each other's elements and we can get all the data exactly like you're saying. But I think it's just more of the time management communication aspect, you know, and also with all of the information being in the model, things can overlap, right? You know, all of a sudden we have ductwork on the plumbing plans and things of that nature. So. Right. We have to work with each other a little bit there.

Speaker:

Where do you foresee project management heading in the industry? Project management in general in the industry,

Speaker:

I think, you know, technology is just ever changing and becoming more and more efficient. And project managers are going to have to get up to speed with it. And learn how to our advantage so that we can also be just as efficient and, correct and coordinated in our deliverables in hopes to, you know, make our clients happy and avoid issues in construction in the field. I mean, that's the the whole, you know, beauty behind Revit with architecture, is that we can hopefully solve a lot of problems upfront. So that we're having a smooth construction phase. So I think project management is going to get more efficient with the software, and we're going to be able to use it to our advantage, of course. It is there to work for us. So we just need to figure out how to make it work as efficiently as possible.

Speaker:

I totally agree. And just to kind of hint on future possible topics, but obviously the project management getting smarter with some of the AI, the stuff that's coming in in the industry, getting everybody excited.

Speaker:

Okay. I'm excited. Yeah.

Speaker:

Let's see where that ends up.

Speaker:

Yeah. I mean, hopefully it is, like I said, working for us, helping us just to be better and more clear and and as efficient as possible. I mean, everything is faster and more detailed. So we have to keep up with that.

Speaker:

Absolutely. So we just went through a case study. Tell me a little bit more about one of your favorite clients or favorite models that you've worked with.

Speaker:

Yes. So I would love to talk about that. I would say a couple of examples. My first and most favorite is, you know, we get this awesome big project. It's a lot of moving pieces. It is very large in nature, has a lot of different scope, not just dwelling unit design, but has some restaurants and some really high end amenity. And of course we have, you know, the client that wants it done yesterday, that's, that's usually the case which is great. Well you only work for that one client obviously. Yeah. And you know, we're doing this project in Revit and we want it to be highly coordinated. And it was the first time working with this architect in our office. And they were really great about understanding why we need time and some control over our Revit model. The reason why that is so great is because, you know, some sometimes you just don't understand that if you move a wall, you know, six inches or something and you do that in the whole building, now all their plumbing risers are messed up. And because that's in 3D, it's not just, you know, showing a circle like it is in AutoCAD. It is literally a pipe going up and down in your building. And that basically has to be deleted. I mean that design - is -- it's having to be redrawn at that point. If you change your ceiling height, if structural gets added in, and now there's, you know, beams everywhere that we're seeing, anything like that can affect the RCP, which affects mechanical and electrical. So explaining that to an architect that is open minded in hearing that, you know, they're like, oh, that makes total sense. We'll let you know exactly what changes we're making and we will send you our model, you know, two weeks before this deliverable, which gives us time to consume it and update it ourselves. And then our BIM team let’s us know what has changed in the backgrounds. And now we can go to those specific points and clean up our design. That helps for a lot of reasons. One, we are able to control when and what we are updating. And that allows us to take a moment and, and identify where there are changes instead of sending us on a wild goose chase, where things could be missed, essentially.

Speaker:

Streamlining the fact, bringing you directly to the changes rather than having to hunt them down.

Speaker:

Exactly. And it just saves time. At the end of day is going to make our drawings a lot cleaner. So that was a great experience because with the architect understanding, you know, that we all have the same end goal, right? Provide the best, most high-end product that we can to our client. And we just need, you know, a realistic timeline for that sometimes. So having them help us to have that conversation is super beneficial. And then kind of pivoting to another example of that is, live models are very popular with architects. And I totally I totally understand why. Right? You know, that you have -- your entire team has the correct background and things are going to match. And it definitely adds to, you know, a level of efficiency and cleanliness in our backgrounds. But with that, you know, as we're working through a project, we all have some late nights, some three AM changes that we're making.

Speaker:

Not in engineering.

Speaker:

Oh, no, never. And it can be tough sometimes when you're waking up on the day of a deliverable and you see that there's all these fun architectural background changes. So with a live model, what is great is to find a level of compromise, you know? So what's worked out really nicely is when we're we're live for, you know, the majority of these different construction or CD phases - DD, SD. Sorry I’m going backwards, SD, DD, CD, all of our design phases. And then we pick a day where the model freezes. So two weeks before this deadline, we are no longer live, these are the backgrounds that you have to work on and coordinating that in our BIM kickoff at the very beginning of the project has gone really well and it's been very successful. So it's just a good compromise that, yes, you have the life model and your backgrounds are showing up as soon as possible for us, which is great because we can adapt to changes quickly. But that still gives us that little bit of control so that our drawings still look clean and make sense when we deliver them.

Speaker:

It's almost a necessity with the live models as well. Just because in order for I mean, the other options are the publish and consume. When you publish it, you have a little bit more control because you can talk to the architect about when to publish it. But the publishing and consume it allows us to maybe make sure that our stuff is aligned, and it makes sure that we have a good design package that we put out. But our backgrounds may be different. So there is perks behind the live modeling. But you've got the -- everybody on board has to work together in order for it to work.

Speaker:

Which the BIM kickoff is a great first step. Yes. That’s why I’m a big proponent of the BIM kickoff. But, I know you have been mentioning how, you know, you're always sending us just company updates about Revit changes how the BIM team is working on improving our families, improving model efficiency. What is kind of like the thing you're most excited about right now? As far as what's coming down the pipeline with BIM updates?

Speaker:

Well, I think some of our families, we've taken huge strides in the way that we built them. We've got a lot of, formulations built into them that are honed more towards what JSE does for design in the hopes of saving the designers’ time, on the end goal. Outside of that, we've got we're trying to make things just essentially more accepting or more easily accessible to everybody. So we've made some changes there. We also got a bunch of new tools that are coming out that hopefully will be incorporating better efficiencies while modeling. I don't know. One of the, one of the ones that pops out in my head off the bat is those fun little comments we get from clients where, hey, you've got a half inch line going through our beam. Being -- having a tool that can quickly offset that without having to really think about it or the extra efforts of, you know, drawing the pipe down and around. So, hopefully that's that's going to be coming, here soon. Outside of that, I really think that we because we have the BIM kickoff meetings and because we are trying to do a lot of the project management that we may be going above and beyond some of our competitors out there, trying to make sure that we're hitting quality assurance with our clients and working better with them as a team.

Speaker:

It's all about asking the right questions. Yes. I feel like if you’re equipped with the right questions it's a huge strength.

Speaker:

Absolutely. And one of our key things at JSE is excellence in engineering. So I mean, we strive for that and we try to push that as hard as we can, even when the BIM world. Right. And I mean, part of that too, is at the end of the day, I mean, we’re providing construction documents, if they're not clear and legible and coordinated, then that's a huge part of our job that we hadn't done. So the Revit side of it and making things more efficient so that we can put the extra effort into coordination is huge.

Speaker:

So, what are some of the AI things that are coming that could be beneficial to us or that Jordan & Skala is going to be the next front runner on?

Speaker:

Well we're we're looking into that already. I've been digging into a lot of those. There's obviously, AI is a very broad term in the industry. Obviously, I think the starting point is large language modeling, It’s kind of the big thing right now. Being able to talk to the model and ask it to do something. Yeah. Create a bunch of sheets, just being able to type that in. Right? Yeah. I don't know about the faster apart, but at least get the steps going for you. And then there's also the automation of design, which I think we're a little, we're further out on the automating of modeling, but there's still some key things, like, end-to-end routing, obviously is is making some headway. I've seen. So there's potential. I'm eager to see what happens and where we're going to go with all that to be honest with you.

Speaker:

Me too. And I've definitely I've heard some rumblings of what we are doing to to be on the front end of that. And I'm very excited to see, where it goes in the future.

Speaker:

Absolutely. The potential there is going to be great.

Speaker:

Yes. Awesome. Well, this has been great. Yeah. It’s been so much fun to talk about. I feel like I've learned a lot too. So thank you so much for all your questions and this has been fun.

Speaker:

Vice versa. I appreciate your questions as well. I like to see the eagerness.

Speaker:

Absolutely!