BONUS: BIM Q&A with Symetri

In this bonus edition of The Coordination Conversation, Jordan & Skala Engineers sits down with Geoffrey Tears of Symetri for a Q&A on the future of BIM, connected digital delivery, and data ownership across the architecture, engineering, and construction industry.

The conversation goes beyond what today’s platforms can do and explores the larger questions firms are beginning to ask: Who owns the project data? Who controls how it is shared? What happens to that information when the project ends? And how can connected workflows improve coordination without requiring every firm to give up its own processes?

Contents of this Video
00:57 - Introduction
01:53 - Digital Transformation in the AEC Industry
02:50 - Data Ownership, Trust, and Project Access
07:55 - Autodesk Bridge and Connected Workflows
12:55 - Adoption Challenges and Best Practices
16:20 - The Future of Digital Delivery
23:37 - Closing Thoughts
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What Does Digital Transformation Mean for AEC?
Digital transformation is not simply about moving files to the cloud. Geoffrey explains how the industry is shifting from fragmented tools and disconnected data toward collaborative workflows that connect design, coordination, construction, and long-term building operations.

Who Owns the Project Data?
Project teams often work within an environment hosted by one architect, contractor, or owner. The discussion explores the concerns this creates around access, security, accountability, and what happens to a firm’s information once the project is complete.

How Does Autodesk Bridge Work?
Autodesk Bridge allows firms working in separate hubs to exchange selected files and folders while maintaining their own internal standards and workflows. Jeffrey discusses how this approach can give teams greater control over their information without limiting collaboration.

What Makes Implementation Successful?
A connected platform is only as effective as the workflow supporting it. The conversation covers the importance of early communication, file organization, permissions, training, and making sure every participant understands how information will move between teams.

What Is Next for Digital Delivery?
As cloud collaboration, automation, and artificial intelligence continue to develop, organized and accessible project data will become increasingly valuable. Firms that begin establishing connected workflows today may be better prepared for how projects will be delivered in the future.

Why It Matters:
This bonus Q&A is not only about Autodesk Forma or selecting a new software platform. It is about building a more reliable foundation for how project information is created, managed, protected, and shared.
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Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed in this video are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the official policies or positions of any video partners or affiliates.
All content is provided for general informational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice for any specific project, site, or situation. Project requirements, conditions, and regulations vary, and information discussed may not apply to your specific circumstances.
Viewers should consult with a qualified professional before making project-related decisions. Jordan & Skala Engineers assumes no responsibility or liability for actions taken based on this content.
This content is the intellectual property of Jordan & Skala Engineers and may not be reproduced, redistributed, or used by any third party without express written permission.

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Transcript

0:56

Welcome back to Coordination Conversation. I'm Tom Matzen, BIM Director at Jordan & Skala Engineers. Today's conversation is about a shift happening across the industry, away from fragmented file sharing and towards more connected digital delivery. We are joined by Geoffrey Tears from Symetri to explore Autodesk Forma. But the bigger question is not just what these tools do is what they signal about where the industry is headed. Thanks for joining us, Geoffrey. Who is Symetri? Symetri is a global architectural, engineering, construction, owner operator, as well as manufacturing consultant in the digital delivery space. We are one of the largest Autodesk platinum partners in their partner network. And we are, as I mentioned, a global, entity working not only here in the United States, but also in Europe as well as South America now. Let's kind of start off with, a little bit about, you know, what digital transformation is as a buzzword in the AEC industry. So, when we talk about digital transformation in AEC, AECO industry, what we're looking at is a true transformation from fragmented data, data sourcing, to a more connected, collaborative workflow. By using the computing power, as well as cloud storage capabilities that are offered in today's industry. Where does this movement actually differ from other digital transformation conversations? So, we can always say that digital transformation has kind of always been happening through our industry. As we start to move into those further capabilities with computing power. What that means is all of these different fragmented tools are actually going to be more connected and easier to use for the greater good. I don't think this is something that gets said enough, the reason firms are rethinking how they're sharing information, isn't about software. It's about trust. Who controls the data? Who keeps it? When a project ends and who's accountable for when something goes wrong? I mean, in the past, trust has always been a key issue when it comes to the built environment and the building industry itself. In the past, you know, it could be the architect, it could be the owner, it could be the GC that actually owns some of these different fragmented pieces of data, correct? So, in this new digital transformation, this new methodology of working. The idea is that, everybody can collaborate as one and whoever needs to actually have and keep their own data, you have the opportunity to do so as well as send out that data to, specific entities as needed versus a carte blanche, delivery of, packages or services. When you do that, so with the digital delivery, are we getting away from PDFs being deliverables or, how are we inviting? Not necessarily getting away from PDFs, but we do have the opportunity to start to host those PDFs in as I mentioned, the cloud storage environment or common data environment, that allows more people to access these files a lot easier as well as, send them to the necessary, consultants and stakeholders. The way most multi-firm projects run today, one company hosts, everybody else joins their environment, and works in their space. What's actually broken about that? For the most part, it’s what you’ve mentioned, data security as well as the trust factor. A lot of the times, what ends up happening is, consultants are brought in, they're forced to adhere to project standards, workflows, folder structures that they're not familiar with and doesn't actually allow them to, successfully deliver the project in the most efficient way. On top of that, at the end of a project, who knows where that data goes. It's isolated and you might not have access to it again. So one of the things that actually breaks in, in real life is the ownership of the data, not having control of it. Late stage coordination surprises are where projects get expensive. And connected workflow - is connected worklfow - a reduction tool? Yes. It can be used efficiently. Again, throughout the project, we have the ability to essentially nip some of those issues in the bud before they ever, come to, come to the surface so that ultimately it does save money, time and stress. Ultimately, is it changing the fundamental way buildings are getting built? Of course it is. Really and truly, you know, coming from the days of coordinating, 2D drawings, or even 3D models on a Dropbox or a, file sharing system, with this new transformation, as we've all like to say, this gives us the opportunity to actually, to actually connect more individuals all the way throughout the entire process of creating a building, all the way from design, construction, even, after occupancy, throughout the building's lifecycle. So essentially you're saying that it's an environment that is going to connect, even from the very beginning of the design phase and from the schematic phase all the way through ownership and and building the entire lifestyle - building design - or building lifecycle, actually. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, for the most part, when it comes to after operations and we have to go after renovations and all of that good stuff, trying to find that data that actually is up to date, it's almost impossible. So with this new, transformation, we have the opportunity to make sure that most of all of those files, all of those documents, all that information is stored and housed in the correct spot and can be executed or sent out as needed. As new projects arise or as, we go to the point of demolition. So with all of the fun stuff being said, where are some of the delineations between ownership of that software? If everybody's kind of in the same environment and it's just getting passed through? So really and truly, as you know, in the AECO it’s multidisciplinary, so we all have our needs, wants and requirements that we are delivering in the end, the owner of that data can be the owner or the architects, the owner or the architects or whoever is involved in the project. What this will allow us to do, ultimately, is make sure that those data flows are managed by the people who are supposed to be managing them, and not just one person trying to manage a bunch of disciplines they might not have that much awareness or, knowledge about. I know that one of the features or tools that are on the Forma is, is a fun tool called bridging. How does bridging affect trust in the current model? When it comes to trust, what we actually now have the ability to do is essentially put a blockade on, individuals who might not need access to every little piece of the project. Whether that's a individual firm, a subcontractor, or, you know, some type of vendor. What we now have the ability to do is essentially make sure that, data is flowing properly to the right people, so that there is no interruptions or any interactions with, material that might not be needed to be, updated or, modified by someone else. So in turn, it allows companies to build their own workflows and keep it within their own environment, their own hubs, and share the vital information that needs to be shared between each other. Some other features that are available on there are obviously, you know, we got the RFIs and things like that. In fact Autodesk recently just did a rebranding from ACC Autodesk Construction Cloud. Thank you. To Forma. Can you give a little bit of insight with your ties from Symetri to Autodesk on why that rebranding came about? Sure. I mean, really and truly, I'm sure we all got confused with Autodesk Construction Cloud. We had build, we had docs. We have all of these different things under separate names. With Forma, we're adding on design capabilities as well as the documentation coordination, and execution of our projects in the digital realm. What Autodesk really felt is that it needed to be, considered one product versus one process, versus a multiple, a multitude of different software processes, workflows. All of this is supposed to be connected. And by doing so, I believe their marketing team was on top of making sure that that everything falls under that one umbrella known as Forma. The connected workflows, can we expand a little bit on that and how that may reduce risk? at a coordination level? Really and truly, when we start to look at, those connected workflows, whether it is an engineer working on, analysis of, their models or the architects working on the exterior, looking at solar shading, all of that can be all connected and make sure - it makes sure that we are continuously going back and forth, providing some type of foundation that continues to build upon itself. So by having this connected workflow, we're no longer are siloing our information. We have the ability to make sure that we're sharing only pertinent information with the proper people. And by doing so in the cloud environment in a common data environment. This allows for us to, essentially get updates almost automatically. Depending on, of course, the source and the, permissions, which drastically reduces, the time it takes to coordinate a project as well as the risk. And as you mentioned before, the trust. Again, we're inviting people into different environments. How are you kind of seeing - if we've got multiple hubs going on, who's hub are we inviting people into? Are some of the end- users like contractors and things like that going to have to connect into multiple hubs, or is that part of the bridging? So the great part about bridge is no longer will the subcontractors have to access multiple hubs. They will have the ability to actually pull information from specific projects onto their hub and use it in the way that their firm or their practice likes to use that information. Bridge allows us to do not only, single direction, single directional, data flow, but we can do bi directional. So again, if a subcontractor does have to edit their model or their drawings, it doesn't have to sign on to another hub in order to do so and navigate through a folder structure they might not be familiar with. They can easily just send that information to the, to their actual client or whoever's in charge of the project itself. And they can utilize that information as they see fit. You mentioned that they're able to bring it in and use their own folder structure, which I foresee being huge, perk across multiple firms just because you're not having to learn something new. You're not having to learn a new environment. You're able to keep people in a single source environment that they're accustomed to and feel comfortable in. What are some of the common mistakes that you've seen firms do during adoption of this environment? For the most part, I would say it has been data sharing, really and truly, making sure that everybody is on the same page. Making sure that all the models, all the - all the drawings, sheets, RFIs specifications are all up to date. Once you get really - once you have that organization down and you have that understanding of how, data is being transmitted back and forth, that's where the process of implementing a common data environment like Forma, really starts to flower and show its true worth. Again, communication at the beginning and kind of getting getting all of that set up at the very beginning is, is a key step in making all of these projects run smoothly. It's true commitment, Working within your own environment and speeding those things up, also allows for faster turnaround I'm assuming. Yep, faster turnaround, more effective onboarding for new consultants or new engineers on the project. This also allows for better training opportunities and learning opportunities, freeing up more time to actually pay attention to the things that we really should be paying attention to. As an MEP firm, we honestly have to - we go by what our clients, which are typically the architects or the contractors, kind of recommend. And a lot of times we get feedback or we get fear of implementing something - the bridging or implementing something new across the board. How have you shown other sub consultants, firms how to handle that or how to deal with that? Sure. I really and truly, can flip the question back on that person and say, what horror stories have you seen? Whether that is the - a model not being up to date or in its current status, files missing, other people who weren't supposed to be in a file structure, touching that file structure or those files themselves. Most of the time when when that question gets asked, the client already knows what they were looking for, and they are the ones who actually give us that answer. If again. so I'm going to flip one more time on you as an MEP firm. How would you suggest getting a client that is kind of leading leading the design aspect to feel comfortable in this change? Just opening it up and and offering assistance, or is there something that is a little more structured that we could point them in. Well there’s always education. Autodesk has some great tools on, on, on their website and some information, to help, you know, bridge that gap, no pun intended. Bridge that gap between, the consultant client relationship. In most cases, your clients probably do have an ACC Hub or Autodesk Forma Hub. And they just weren't aware of it. I guarantee, and I've seen it happen multiple times, where once they actually understand what the product does, what that tool actually does, they're open to it, and a lot of times that ends up being a paradigm shift for the entire office, and especially on new projects going forward. What are firms going to risk if they wait on trying to adopt this new technology? Well, I don't know if, you're going to risk missing too much at this point. Except for potential profits. Maybe trust a little bit. When it comes to timing, if a client sees that one, one of their consultants is using bridge successfully and this connected workflow. They might not trust the other client who's not, or another consultant who's not using that function. Which could ultimately lead to less billings. Really and truly, it's the the connected, the connected environment. Allows for your own way of working through all of these problems. In the end, the ones who explore the the best, most efficient tools will be the ones that come out successful. So staying on top of the trend and staying on top of what is out there and the best workflows is absolutely necessary. So being the most efficient, with the Forma environment, the common data environment, like you've mentioned, and then in your previous answers, it almost lays the foundation for some of the AI tools that is a whole other topic that we could get into. But are you seeing more interconnectability or are we seeing more ways to get the data information passed back and forth out of our traditional. For sure, for sure. And again, as I mentioned, there's almost no lag time when it comes to, what is being produced and what's being sent out if done effectively. Bridge, as I have mentioned, does allow for bi directional, syncing on certain types of files and folders. So that does give that opportunity for us to not have to wait till the end of the week to send out a new package of the most up to date drawings, or the most up to date models. It's just happening. And everybody gets a confr- anyone who's involved in the project is going to get some type of notification to let them know that, you know, there's changes have been made and they can make those they can make the - their, revisions or their comments right there in the queue without ever leaving. With this being kind of new technology, obviously, again, we're we're seeing the industry shift. are there still bugs that are needed - are being worked out? How are you - or is there anything that's kind of stopping the forward momentum of this industry change? I don't see - there obviously is going to be bugs. There's, it's technology. And Autodesk is a massive firm working in multiple different realms. I don't really see that many barriers at this point, as of yet. Obviously there's probably some functions and features that will - can be added and will be added. But that's up to us and Autodesk. And clients like yourself, consultants like yourself to make them aware of what you need and how you want it to work. Autodesk is usually pretty, pretty good about trying to keep up with what the market is requesting. Yeah, we've we've ran into a few of those bugs that, brought up, which is part of the reason why I asked, one of those are with the bridging the, the nested links. Bridging is not a big fan of that. Are there - but there's alternatives out there to get around that, if I'm not mistaken. Sure. One of those actually being something that you guys offer. And that's not really bridging that is just kind of copying information back and forth. So, have you ran into any other bugs besides those that are a little bit more specific? Personally, I have not, but I have a whole team back at home and could probably give you a list. Fair enough. Fair enough. You had mentioned, taking on this initiative, right? Do you feel it has been beneficial or, to work with a consultant like Symetri? In order to help you with that implementation and see if there was any roadblocks, to make sure you navigate this properly, to give recommended, workflows as well as, implementation set ups. Oh, absolutely. I mean, working with Symetri and just y'all's vast knowledge in working with multiple different clients. We do lean on you guys for some of the industry direction and things like that. Outside of what I do on my own research, obviously. But knowing even doing your own research, knowing where the industry is heading, exactly. What are other firms like ours doing? Has saved us a lot of time in implementation and adoption across the board? Sure. So, I can’t say it’s necessarily stress free, but much better than doing your on your own. Absolutely. And obviously every company does it their own way. And we've got to kind of make it work for our own, just like every other company is going to have to figure out a way to make it work for their own workflows and internal road roads. So as we move forward, you, how do you see this relationship growing between Jordan Skala and Symetri? Well, obviously it's going to grow across the board as we get into this, because we are just at the very cusp of the beginning of adopting all of this. Which is something that we're trying to build all of our workflows around being that is going to be the future, whether it's Autodesk or it's another software. We are seeing that this is an industry shift in the direction that, again, whether Autodesk provides it or if another piece, another vendor provides this information. These are the workflows. These are the the directions that will be going with the digital delivery rather than more of the physical like siloed deliveries like you said. I think the connectivity between all of them is going to be tremendous. And the whole environment of being more efficient, the whole direction of trying to make sure that we're able to do things, faster, better, and with unfortunately, less resources. I think that's across the board as well that we're seeing. So do you see any concerns in what's coming ahead? All the time. There's always going to be hiccups. There's always going to be road roadblocks. I don't know how many times we've tried to implement something and we've hit a wall because it's not the way that we've normally done something. We've had to think outside the box, or we're having to change the way that we're doing things, but still give the client still give our information to the clients that they're requesting. Our main goal is to make our clients happy and to provide them the information that they need. As the common data environment and, the idea of cloud computing, the idea of data connectivity continues to grow. How do you see, this benefiting your company's, ability to gain compliance or gain more trust with your current clients? To be honest with you, I'm hoping the trust grows across the board with all of them. I'm - we're always trying to improve our relationships with them. We're always trying again to figure out better ways to provide them with the answers that they need faster. I think that changing the way that we're doing some of this and trying to think outside the box is going to do nothing but help us in the goal of maybe reaching out to some of the clients that we haven't worked with before and them realizing how easy it is to work with us. How how much working with us not only makes ourselves efficient, but can also make them more efficient as well. Sure. Well, as you know, here at Symetri, we work with, everyone from architects all the way to the owners environment. Do you see a relationship between, you and your owners being more established throughout the building's lifecycle in the future? Again, I would hope so. I mean, if we're going to be inviting these, different aspects of the building lifecycles into our environment in order to exchange the information faster, or just get the information across to them. I would hope that. Yeah, it opens doors across the board, and contractors find it easier to work with JSE as long - as well as developers and owners, the same. Sounds good. We'll make sure to send the your way. We’ll appreciate that. thanks to symmetry for bringing the expertise and candor. And thanks to everyone listening. If this sparked something for your team. Share it. Share it. These firms that are asking these questions now are the ones that will be ahead in five years. We will see you next time.